http://www.avenuestl.com/podcast
http://www.propertymanagementstl.com

Host: Greg Abel
Guest: David Mertens
Guest Derek Merkel

0:00 Welcome to the St. Louis Property Management Podcast! This week, we are diving into some of the most common questions about property management, inspired by trending searches on TikTok and YouTube. Joining us today are David Martins, one of our senior account executives, and Derek, one of our newest team members.

1:50 Election Impact on Real Estate
We explored how presidential elections affect the real estate market. Historically, home sales and prices tend to rise after elections, except during major economic crashes like in 2008. Mortgage rates also show varied trends, with some increasing and others decreasing around election times.

7:08 Property Manager Roles
David and Derek discussed the various responsibilities of property managers. Their main tasks include ensuring properties comply with occupancy laws, maintaining property conditions, and managing tenant relationships. They emphasized the importance of communication between property managers, tenants, and owners.

9:25 Property Management Fees
The typical property management fee ranges from 5% to 10% of the monthly rent, with additional fees for leasing and renewals. They noted the importance of not just opting for the cheapest service, as effective property management can save money in the long run by preventing issues like extended vacancies.

13:00 Becoming a Property Manager without experience
Both David and Derek highlighted that previous experience is not mandatory to become a property manager. Starting with a related role within a property management firm and learning through mentorship can be very effective.

17:50 How to Find a Good Property Management Company
Key factors to consider include the responsiveness and communication style of the property manager, their local presence, and their ability to handle problems efficiently. Shopping based on these criteria can lead to better management of your property.

24:43 Tax Deductibility of Fees
Property management fees are generally tax-deductible, which can make professional management more financially viable for landlords.

26:20 Favorite Areas in St. Louis to Investment
David and Derek shared their favorite areas for real estate investment in St. Louis. David prefers Kirkwood and Webster Groves for their stability and long-term returns, while Derek sees potential in Hazelwood for its affordability and growth prospects. Thank you for joining us! We'll be back next week with more insights. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to reach out.

TRANSCRIPT:
Here is the complete transcript of the podcast:

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**Host:** Welcome to the St. Louis Property Management Podcast. We're running a little late this week, but we're back. We're gonna try to get them out weekly, as we actually do property management for a living. Try to squeeze in some social media whatsoever. So, we have David Martins who's been here before. He's one of our more senior account executives. And then to create some contrast, we have Derek, who's one of our newest account executives and property managers. One of the questions that we have today is gonna be perfect for you. So that's coming up. So I thought today, instead of just doing one big topic for 20 or 30 minutes, we'd go through and ask the internet. So I went through and I just looked up, um, using an app to see what are the top searches about property management on TikTok or the top property management searches on YouTube. And then we just sort of see what people are putting in to ask questions. And that way, since we don't actually have any viewers watching or asking questions right, we have some questions answered.

**Host:** So the first one that—well this one's not property management related, but I wanted to go over it. The question that we get every year and when I was starting off in real estate, it was during I believe—I can't remember which election it was—but we were—everybody would call to see if they wanted to sell or buy a house, would say, "I'm waiting to find out what happens after the election." "I'm waiting to find out what happens after the election." Um, I always thought, well, what will you do if Obama wins? And they're like, I don't know. Like, what will you do if Obama loses? And they're like, I don't know. And it seems silly to me, but people do react to the elections. They sort of pause or they act. So the question is, what happens to the real estate market at the election? And if you look at the graph, and we'll throw it up on the screen, home sales went up after nine of the last 11 presidential elections. Now home sales as far as the number. So really, it doesn't seem like the election has much effect on it. The ones where it went down was just a crash. We had 1980 where it went down and then of course in the—well and even—and even in the 2008 crash. So it crashed after the 2004 election, but in 2008, we had that crash and then it's corrected ever since. So we know that home sales went up. Home prices actually went up after the seven of the last eight presidential elections. So the only real contrast we have there is the crash of 2008, which you weren't even around for. How old were you in 2008?

**Derek:** Um, I was born when I was three.

**Host:** So five. He was five years old. Yeah. You missed the crash. I was out banging on doors trying to sell houses. Yeah. So then mortgage rates, mortgage rates decreased leading up to eight of the last 11 presidential elections. That I know all of us, including myself, are like, "Oh, maybe rates will go down a little bit before this election." But what I was looking at this—the 2016 election rates actually went up. So if we look at the last Trump election, if we use that, rates went up right before the election. So that's just sort of interesting information. But are you guys seeing any effect on the market whatsoever as we lead up to the election?

**Derek:** Um, I'm seeing, you know, a lot of people, you know, hitting that pause button because they're unsure. They don't know if it's gonna dip, if it's gonna go higher. So they're just kind of in that waiting game. Um, and then when I asked them, "What would you do differently if you knew a different outcome?" Well, they obviously said if it was gonna dip, they, you know, hunt for some investment properties in that time. But how long would that be? Would that be a week? Two days? Um, you know, before it goes back up or wait for it to go back up and then eventually give it some more time after, and then hopefully it will subside a little bit to be able to get back into the market and not be so, you know, confined by the rates. Um, but it's kind of one of those pause moments where people don't know. And multiple people are telling them different things. So I feel like the most feedback I'm getting is, "We're just gonna wait to see what happens." And that's the main feedback from everybody that I've talked to when it comes to buying and selling or whether I wanna lease it. I'm on the cusp of leasing or buying or selling. I don't know. So let's just wait to see what happens. Um, and I feel like that's a tough situation because, you know, based on history, it's gonna go up by a little bit now. So what's the difference?

**Host:** Well, Derek, what do you see here? I know you think rates are high. I need you to look back at the 1980 and the 1984. What do you see here?

**Derek:** Rates did go up from 12.19% to 14.21%. 15% interest rates back in 19—yeah. I don't know if the numbers would work on investment properties at that price point.

**Host:** So if you ever wondered how housing got so expensive, yeah, this would be the reason why. The 2% interest rates that we saw for a tiny bit, yeah.

**Derek:** And that's kind of what I've seen. I don't even know if it's correlated to the election or not, um, but just with home prices being, you know, the highest that they've ever been and interest rates being higher than what had become normal, um, in my lifetime that, you know, we're seeing less buyers in the market. Um, and like I said, I have no idea if that's correlated to the election or not, but we got used to such low interest rates so people could afford more expensive houses. Now that rates went back up, it's just more difficult for the average person to afford a house, which is a lot of talk in my, you know, generation and people close to my generation is people fearing, you know, that they might never be able to afford homes or, you know, whatever the situation is.

**Host:** But what's your plan?

**Derek:** I planned a house hack.

**Host:** What is that?

**Derek:** I get a duplex or a four-unit building, three-unit building, and live in one unit and lease out the others.

**Host:** Gotcha. Yeah.

**Derek:** Now, is that the short-term strategy to intro in so that once you sell that, then you buy the—yeah.

**Host:** So are you just gonna raise six kids in a four-family?

**Derek:** The goal—the goal is, um, you know, to—to get a house hack, live in it for a year, um, and then ideally after that year is up, refinance into a conventional loan, and then do the same thing again, um, and kind of use that to—to build my own rental portfolio. Um, you know, if I do that, you know, five times and it's two-unit buildings, I have 10 units, um, and then, you know, can use the cash flow or equity from those properties to help afford my primary residence down the line. Yeah.

**Host:** But smart kids, right?

**Derek:** I'm sure I would have done that.

**Host:** All right. So let's go to the internet. So the top question, when you say "put in property management," and the autocomplete is basically all we're looking at, what does a property manager do?

**David:** We do a lot. We do, um, mainly, um, we oversee the property, uh, and oversee that, uh, all compliance things are met with occupancy, um, making sure that it's in a safe and habitable condition so that somebody can move in and feel comfortable. Not only maintain the property but maintaining the tenant as well. That's a relationship that has to be, you know, established up front, good expectations, um, and just informing. Communication with the owner is a huge thing. I think a lot of people hire the cheapest property manager and then they don't get a call back. That's one of the main things I hear when they switch over to us is that we have that communication style of—they need something, they can call someone right away and know that it's being addressed and taken care of. Um, so it's a big wide range of issues, but we handle a lot when it comes to communication, overseeing the property, handling tenant issues, handling owner issues, occupancy, and then just making sure that the house is being maintained through especially winter seasons, summer seasons. You have a lot of HVAC, you have a lot of plumbing things that can go wrong. So just kind of making sure the house is officially, you know, operated correctly and then also that it's not diminishing in value. So, you know, getting those inspections to be able to see, okay, what do we need to improve before it gets worse.

**Host:** Hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, well, and Derek, I'm gonna—I'm gonna ask you the speed question, okay, cause I think you're gonna have a different answer. Six seconds or less, what does our property manager do?

**Derek:** Problems. One word.

**Host:** One word. That was three seconds. Yeah.

**Derek:** We deal with problems. The property's vacant—that's a problem. We fill it.

The property didn't pass inspection—that's a problem. We fix it. Um, you know, the—the tenant has an issue—that's a problem. Pipe freezes—that's a problem. Yeah. We fix it. So yeah. I mean, we just—we deal with problems so you don't have to.

**Host:** That's great answer. That's as simple as it gets. Property management is problem management. And then that's—that's what you always said, you know, from the start.

**Derek:** So I—I and I've always enjoyed solving problems so, you know, for some people if you like to solve problems, it's a great occupation because you can—you do that all day.

**Host:** Yeah.

**Derek:** So and then we spend all day just complaining about problems.

**Host:** Yeah. All right. So second question. Let's see how quick David can answer this. David, what does a property manager charge?

**David:** Uh, depending on the scope of work, uh, could range but usually it's anywhere from 5 to 10% depending on the price point. And then other than that if they need anything extra, those fees can be added for outside the scope of management. But normally it's usually tend to, you know, 5%. And then a standard of first month's rent is our leasing commission. Um, and then, you know, each month we try to offset any expenses by renewing the lease of 5% to get, you know, a better return for the investment on the owner and then just keeping it maintained as much as possible without adding any additional fees. So basically 5 to 10%.

**Host:** Derek, yeah. What is Piper what—what do property managers charge?

**Derek:** Yeah, I mean David kind of said most of it. Um, you know it really depends on who you end up hiring and what type of service you're looking for. Um, you know like we touched on earlier with—with a lot of property managers is having like a 1-800 number that you can call and you don't have a direct line of contact. Obviously that's, you know, it's—they're not gonna charge as much. Um, but yeah, I mean typically for that—that 5 to 10% and the first month's rent. Um, and then you know different renewal fees, you know from $300 to half month's rent is—is usually pretty standard. Um, and yeah it ultimately just depends on what type of service you wanna get.

**Host:** It does feel like everybody's standardized to this sort of 8% median property management fee. Leasing fees and property management fees, two separate parts. Leasing fee can be anywhere from half month's rent to full month's rent never over that. And then the property management is usually around 8% of rent collected. Um, you don't see much of it today but in years past we had a lot of national companies. Um, we'll just call them Renters Depot. It was one of the big ones. I was on their website today for something that's broken really. Yeah. And they were charging 75 bucks a month and you know they did great at getting new business but every time they crashed here locally we would just get influx of calls and questions.

**Derek:** And that's—that's what you've always said from the start too is—I mean that goes back to my answer about what does a property manager do is we solve problems. And what you've always said and something that I've, you know, been able to tell to prospective clients is, you know, if you're looking for the cheapest like it's great. You go to that 75 bucks a month. It's great until there's a problem. Right. And then when there's a problem you wish you had somebody like us who has dealt with the problem before more than likely and, you know, is staying on top of it as your direct line—line of contact with the tenant and to you.

**Host:** Yeah. Yeah the $75 a month works great if there's no problems. Yeah. If you already have it headed in there and it's going smooth. Yeah. Try it. You could be great for a year. It's always say, you know, when we get a client and we end up losing to a lower rate. I said that's great. That's fine. Try—I completely expect that cause people shop off price. So go get the price you want and then realize that it's not the service you want. Yeah. And then you can come back to us. We'll give you exactly what you deserve and then we'll give you the service you were wanting to begin with but it will cost a certain amount but you'll see the value now. Yeah. It's harder to provide that up front because they don't see you doing the job.

**Derek:** Yeah. When they don't see it right.

**Host:** Yeah. The bummer is taking other people's problems. Yeah. When they—hey I have my can't get hold of this property manager. The local guy is now gone and it's a big mess for the last six months and it's really hard to unwind and it's never pretty. All right next question TikTok I guess cause the younger crowd is how to become a property manager without experience. We'll go David first.

**David:** So I actually started here not as a property manager. Um, I did lead generation and kind of marketing for the firm and never even thought about, you know, becoming one. Um, but stepping inside of a firm and seeing how it all works got me intrigued. So that's a good step is kind of getting into the door figuring it all out and then seeing if it's a good fit for you. It kind of was a good fit for me. I transition straight into it. Um, and—and then it was good. I had no experience at all. I had a degree that didn't even go with this, you know, career at all. Um, and I jumped in head first and kind of went for it. Um, but I think, you know, having no experience is not a deterrent. I think it's actually good cause now you're adaptable and you're moldable. You haven't learned something you have to unlearn and learn in a different way here. So I think kind of just getting in anywhere you can, showings, helping people out, um, running signs doing something for the firm that's similar to property management but not having your license yet, getting your license then being able to follow a senior in shadow is probably the best thing. I was underneath Aaron for a while and it helped me a lot just to see him do the daily stuff and I was able to ask questions, get answers without having to make mistakes right up front cause I didn't know things. So I had kind of a good senior behind me kind of motivating me to do things and helping me learn it versus just going in sitting in a brokerage and no one talking to you. It's kind of a good family team here where people kind of help each other grow. So finding a brokerage that fits your needs versus giving you all these, um, unattainable goals and telling you they're gonna make all this money that you're not kind of just kind of basically understanding how you want your career to go and which brokerage but, you know, lack of experience is just—you have to get in somewhere and then get your feet in and then try to do it. That's the best way to do it.

**Host:** So Derek TikTok wants to know how do you become a property manager without experience?

**Derek:** Um, I would say the key like David was saying was to uh to find a—find a good broker. I mean find some—a property management company that is willing to uh, you know, mentor you and—and teach you how to—to do the business. Um, and most brokerages will probably accommodate that if, you know, depending on the payment model. You know, if you're full commission and eat what you kill anyway. So they'll come in and help you out and, you know, it's a win-win scenario for—for all parties.

**Host:** So yeah that is a good answer. When I saw this too I'm like well this applies to everything. How do you do anything without experience? How do you get anything without experience? I gotta say you gotta start and it's—it's the same thing and I'm hoping this generation catches on. Um, I'm trying to teach my kids and like you have all the information available to you at your fingertips at all times.

**Derek:** Yeah.

**Host:** You should never have to ask anybody how do you do this.

**Derek:** No I agree with that but there's also a side where it's almost too much information.

**Host:** That's true.

**Derek:** You know, you have all this stuff and it's like people are saying this people are saying this. Well, I think—I think really the key is a mentor. Find somebody that has done it before that is in the position that you wanna be at and see if they would mentor you.

**Host:** Well then that's where I was getting to. Yeah. With—with anything you go, how do I learn how to become blah blah blah and everybody used to look at education which I think is fading cause used to be like how would you get into this? Why I need to go to college for that. I need to sign up for classes. And I really don't think that's the best answer. Um, and even corporations do training. I don't think just classroom training like you go, we have a great training program here at the whatever A's ABC Corporation. I really think mentoring or apprenticeship, the old model of you go hey, back in the day if you wanted to become anything, what did you do? You shadowed, you became an apprentice after answering. But that old guy would teach you everything he knew in exchange for a little bit of help.

**Derek:** Exactly.

**Host:** You know, getting them good and so we've—we have the same model here as like when you came

in we just put you with a senior. You're helping the senior with his portfolio learning and building your uncle portfolio at the same time. That way you have coverage. We have an issue we have a senior. If the senior ever needs some help with something you're there. It's a really good relationship and it's been like that for hundreds of years right?

**Derek:** Yep.

**Host:** The apprenticeship model. We just call it junior senior but yeah same thing. So that would be my advice is anybody who wants to learn anything and especially property management go find somebody who's doing it and ask if they need help.

**Derek:** Yeah hundred percent.

**Host:** And most people do need help especially in this problem management business. There's never enough help. All right so Derek I'll go back to you. How if you're a landlord in St. Louis how do you choose a property manager?

**Derek:** Yeah I mean I would say, um, you know simple start with a Google search. You know, um, property managers in the area and you know look at reviews, um, look at, you know, Yelp whatever their websites whatever it may be and—and kind of decide what type of services you're looking for. You know if you're—if you're looking for, um, quality service or if you're just simply looking for the cheapest rate. I mean you're gonna shop differently. Um, you know so yeah I would say that the best way is Google search, maybe thumbtack, um, and—and read the reviews and just reach out to different property managers and set appointments. Um, meet the property managers face to face. Make sure that uh—a you like each other too cause you don't wanna work with somebody that you don't like.

**Host:** Sure for the next 10 years.

**Derek:** Exactly exactly and then, um, you know, make sure that—that your—your goals are aligned. You know and I think if you do those two things you'll probably have a pretty good experience with the—the property manager that you end up hiring.

**Host:** So David how would you say to choose a property manager? How to choose one?

**David:** I would say everything comes down to communication in this entire business. So first off are you guys driving well on the phone? Are you guys, you know, having a good style of communication? If there's something wrong, are you, you know, reaching out right away? Um, I think everything is based on communication. So understanding what you're wanting and if they're able to provide that and it lines up like you said with the goals and the outcome. That's the biggest pretty much decision I think for, you know, an owner to say okay I'm gonna hire these people because they have the same goals and they give me a plan of action of how to execute those goals. Not just saying we have—we can do it. Everyone's gonna say that. It's just how are you gonna get it done? How have you got it done in the past? What are your experiences to show that you can do it for me? Well I've done it for X amount of clients and here's their review saying that I've done a good job. I can also give you a current review of a few properties that I have and you can check references as well. I know that's a lot where people from out of town they're not able to meet you and zoom calls don't always give the full, you know, scope of the relationship. So I feel like if you can get people in line to, you know, review how you are as a person and then kind of give those to other people who are currently managing, it gives them some more confidence in being able to pick you if they're shopping around. So I think just keeping that open and communication line and getting a good relationship up front and establishing connections and saying how you're gonna get the job done and then showing that you've done it before. That would be the best, you know, property manager to pick in my opinion.

**Host:** Yeah. When choosing a property manager, I think you have to decide up front. Do I want the cheapest property manager to increase cash flow or do I want the property well taken care of? Cause I've yet to see those both be the same. I've—haven't run across a company yet that is the cheapest and doing the best job.

**Derek:** Right.

**Host:** Then I also think that like you said search Google yes but as you're inquiring see how quickly they call you back. Because one of your biggest complaints is gonna be lack of communication. And if you're asking something about your property or there's a repair issue and you're not getting almost instant response that's—that's an issue. So as you're shopping see who's most responsive, who takes you days to call you back, who says they're gonna follow up and actually does. That's gonna be a good indication of what—how they're gonna be for the next 10 years. The other thing too is, you know, trying to shop around even if you go look I just have a portfolio and my profit margin is 5% and I don't wanna give like every dollar counts. You really—if somebody's gonna save you 15 bucks a month per unit with these rents, we're talking 50 to 100 dollars a day in vacancy. So one day of vacancy can be 50 bucks, you know, on a 3,000 dollar rent that's a hundred bucks a day. And so when you're trying to save 15 25 30 even 100 bucks a month that can be eaten up with 12 days of vacancy. Your whole year of savings is gone if they don't turn that property or they lose a tenant or the tenant moves out and they don't notice for a while. All the horror stories we hear from other companies, that's a big issue. So shopping on price is a little tricky. You really have to figure out who you trust the most to take really good care of the property because we haven't even talked about repairs yet and damage which right um, we're all in shock. Not only is there inflation but contracting pricing and home repair pricing is going crazy. So it's like trying to save 15 bucks 25 bucks even if somebody's $100 more a month that I think—you really have to be careful about picking that cheapest option especially if they're not out of town. I would say general fist on the table yep make sure they're local. Not just a local person that has a salary here because for whatever reason that person never lasts high turnover right. And once that person's gone now you're in trouble cause they don't have a team here and now you gotta—that is one of the main questions I get from out of town. Yeah owners are you local? Get local vendors they want boots on the ground. Yeah they want actual lives. Have you lived in the municipality? Are you close to it? You know do you know people that live there? Do you manage any properties in this municipality to that kind of thing? You know it's it gives them more confidence to be like okay at least if something's going wrong you'll actually be able to get to the property versus Josh Moe and a different state managing on a computer system that says yeah we'll get a vendor over there but the vendor is not available and they're not even in town. They have to come over from Illinois or some other place and that's why I—I recently talked to a owner who was gonna try to give us a portfolio and their biggest complaint was that their management company was using out of town vendors and not local vendors. So they were getting these random higher cost than they were used to because of travel time. They didn't use efficiency in getting things done.

**Derek:** I know which is out of the ordinary. You wouldn't think a local company would do that but they were outsourcing everything and so that's why they kind of made the switch to come over to us to show that hey we have local vendors here. We have a preferred list will try to get you the best, you know, return on your investment and won't spend your money without approval. Will take care of you and understand that, you know, things are gonna cost X but they shouldn't cost that much because we do use local vendors so there should be less travel time less trip charges in those things.

**Host:** This next question came up and I thought oh what a great question and check with your accountant and your tax advisor. We're not accountant tax advisors. Are property management fees tax deductible?

**Derek:** I'd say yeah definitely.

**Host:** Is it expense to a business?

**Derek:** Yeah you're operating you have an income it cost to have that so even when you're an accidental landlord you move out of one house has a 3% interest. So you call Derek and you say Derek I think we're just gonna keep this house as a rental which we get a lot they move on to a new house you keep that one. That still becomes investment property. That's an investment so any of your fees so you know when people say well I'm trying to save this guy over here is $20 a month cheaper like laughter taxes it's more like 13 you know her whatever might be. So if they're paying you a hundred bucks a month that's not taking a hundred bucks out of their pocket because it's tax deductible right. And so when you're running a small business like that everything hits your bottom line, you know, your piggy bank differently. So if your hundred bucks a month tax deductible whatever your tax bracket is figure that out usually about 30 40% and so it doesn't hurt as bad as people think it will if they're trying to manage their own property to throw one in there.

**Derek:** And I don't think people consider that. I think they just look at it like, you know, I'm spending it now how am I gonna get it back?

**Host:** Yeah it's like I wouldn't they think of it like Netflix when that goes from 20 to 40 bucks a month which is crazy. Yeah and then back back in my day Derek Netflix was like $7. Yeah eight 50

a month.

**Derek:** Yeah imagine.

**Host:** So that was the last question. So we'll end every podcast with this and it could just be 30 seconds or less. Somebody asks you where is your favorite place city municipality to invest and why?

**Derek:** Hmm you know I like as far as numbers go um for like appreciation and cash flow I think like Hazelwood is a pretty good municipality for for both of those. You can still find properties like under 200,000 um and you know typically it's they'll appreciate relatively well as well. Um I like a lot of parts of of South City as well. Um and obviously, you know, I'm from Ballwin so I would love to have some Ballwin investment properties.

**Host:** Good. Yeah. David I'll ask you the same question. Somebody's investing they want to know where is your favorite area to invest and why?

**David:** Um I'm a little biased. I'd say Kirkwood is one of my favorite places to invest just because it has such a high demand for families and community. Same with Webster Groves as well. Um both those towns have always been rock solid through any kind of crash. Um they've always held value more than every other town. Um and I feel like if you can get in a decent price your appreciation is gonna outweigh your cost overall and so the long term game is a better return in those areas but if you were to do a short term I'd say probably Hazelwood in Florissant just because the prices are still affordable and if you're looking to get into your like your first or second investment property those are the areas you wanna be in because you're gonna make most amount of cash flow hold it for two or three years sell it take the lump sum then reinvest in a higher market like Kirkwood Webster to get a higher end return but it'll just take longer to recoup those funds.

**Host:** So yeah Kirkwood's like a gold brick right 500,000 dollar investment in a gold brick cause that thing's not moving. Even in a market crash Kirkwood is just it stays solid.

**Derek:** Yeah.

**Host:** Um and Ballwin's like that too.

**David:** I still like Kirkwood's really hard to get into just because the prices are outrageous.

**Host:** And Ballwin's getting that way too.

**David:** It is yeah.

**Host:** There's but there's still parts of like Ellisville. Yeah I mean you can find the back of Ballwin we're talking Manchester Winchester that kind of we would Anthony were looking at a 250,000 dollar little single family in Winchester that would probably lease for 22 23 you know so those numbers aren't too crazy you know it's probably gonna go above asking but um I mean that used to be worth 98.

**Derek:** Yeah exactly.

**Host:** That's crazy.

**Derek:** I didn't know when it was worth 98 but I did.

**Host:** I remember that Winchester was 98 to 113 was a good price to sell a house in there.

**Derek:** It was I wish or so it was used to be you know three bedroom two baths ranches were 1 15 1 20.

**Host:** Yeah.

**Derek:** And now you see them sitting at 1 61 7.

**Host:** You're like whoa yeah.

**Derek:** That's a huge change and all the investors who we bought four or five years ago are like well thank god we bought when we bought.

**Host:** Yeah exactly.

**Derek:** He goes to the now you have that equity already built in cause all the comps have increased value overall. So it's a it's a good area. I think Hazelwood in Florissant that keeps uh investors coming back uh cause it's not going overpriced like a lot of other municipalities have have and weaned out investors who just don't have that capital.

**Host:** And I am I am liking St. Charles a lot now too St. Charles County and surrounding areas.

**Derek:** Yeah I agree I think it's pretty solid on going up consistently.

**Host:** I'm hearing that more and more.

**Derek:** Yeah yeah.

**Host:** Well thank you guys. Thanks for staying late at work. I know it's late we got to get you home to your families. It's almost 2:00 in the afternoon.

**David:** I should be out running an appointment.

**Host:** I know I need to go set some appointments.

**Derek:** Come on.

**Host:** All right. Thanks for helping me out and we'll talk to you next week.

**David:** Thanks for having us.

**Derek:** Thank you.

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